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Marketing, Lead Generation, And The Value Of Aligning Goals with Tom Poland
We’re talking to Tom Poland. Tom sent me his amazing book, Leadsology: The Science of Being in Demand. He’s written several bestselling books that follow around lead generation. This is an important area because we can get further faster in our business. We can be more profitable, we can make more revenue, and we can then be more innovative when we have more leads that turn into more customers. This is a perfect topic to talk about how we can work smarter, not harder, in the area of sales and lead generation. Tell us first about your background. You have a methodology here that you’ve created this proprietary. What makes you the Lead Guru?
The whole deal is around the fact that it works, which is a pretty good start. I’m probably the only guy out there that says, “Don’t believe me, don’t pay me any money. Try it for a month and see if it works. If you think it’s pretty good, I want to be paid for the month because I was going to meet with you at least four times in that first month.” That sets me apart a little bit because all of the people out there who do something that might appear to be similar to what I do say, “Trust me, give me your money and then I’ll show you how to get some new clients.” I’m the only guy out there that say, “Don’t trust me, don’t give me your money. I’ll trust you to pay after you validated that it’s done well.” I do think that sets me out.
It totally does because that’s huge. That would be like a total deciding factor for me because it tells me that you have enough confidence in your method in the way that you work, that you know you’re going to deliver that level of value. I honor that. I want to work with people in Facebook ads and different types of marketing and I say, “I only want to work when you’re going to guarantee your work.”
At that point, I’ll go, “Penny, if you doubt your ability, there should be a conversation we need to have.” I’ve got a call from a prospective new client and she said, “I’m meeting with someone else tomorrow. They want me to guarantee that they will have a locked-in contract for at least $8,000.” I said, “Why would they want to do that?” Most people are trustworthy, that’s my thing. I find that nineteen out of twenty people pay me because they get value. When I have an audience of 100 people, I say, “Put your hand up if you’ve heard someone say, ‘Trust me, pay me the money and I’ll show you how to generate some new clients,’ and three months later all you’ve got to show for that is an empty bank account balance. Put your hands up.” 97 hands go up and the other three just didn’t want to put the hands up. I say, “How many times have we done these guys?” It’s like three times, five times, seven times. I’ll say, “Stop doing that. Let’s stop believing people who sound good and sound confident and they have the testimonials. It doesn’t work so stop doing that. Instead, don’t trust me. I’ll show you to generate leads. If you think it’s good, then pay me, please.”
That’s one of the things that you talk about in your book too is you have to have a differentiator.
The other thing that is going to be on my next book is marketing should be about confirmation. We shouldn’t be having a conversation as an attempt to convince people of anything. We had to create an offer. All I want is a confirmation that it’s right for them. There are no sales. I am the world’s worst salesperson and I take great pride in that. When I have a conversation with a potential new client, it’s a discussion between two mature adults to see if I’ve got something here that might be good for them. One in three, I’d say I’m not the guy for you. One and three go into my least expensive program and one and three go to the higher priced program. That’s about how it swings out. The guru thing, I’m guilty as charged. I have Leadsology.Guru, but I only got it because the .com was gone and the bastard wouldn’t sell it to me.
I like to think of it like this, it’s not a guru like spiritual leader master. It’s like, “You are you.” There should be authenticity in the marketing. That’s almost a cliché now because the inauthentic people have grabbed the word authentic, but it should be your personality coming out. It shouldn’t be any bending out of shape of ethics, the personality. The biggest bending out of shape and we’re talking about time, what I discovered and it took me 37 years to figure this out and I say to people, when it comes to business, every day you wake up, every business that you wake up, you wake up and you do what you want to do. On some days you wake up and do what you should do. Every day you wake up and do what you want to do.
Maybe someone said you should go into LinkedIn and you should spend an hour a day connecting with people and sending valuable messages and you wake up in the morning, you go, “I should do that.” One of two things happens, the moment you think should is you either don’t do it because you get a better offer, or you do it inconsistently. If you don’t do it, you get no results. If you do it inconsistently, you get inconsistent results. If we want to talk about time efficiency, we’ve got to get people doing the style of marketing they actually want to do, where they wake up in the morning go, “Good, I get to do that thing and I want to do that thing. I know with a reasonable degree of certainty it’s going to produce some new clients.” That’s not a bad plan.
We’re all hanging on our seats. There is an expression, “We shouldn’t should on ourselves.” I heard Tony Robbins say it, and I’m not sure if he’s the first person who said it. It’s true. If you think about it, the reason that we’re using the word should is there’s already resistance there.
What he says is replaced it with must.The inauthentic people have grabbed the word authentic. Click To Tweet
That’s one of the things that I say too, is that we want to make our should to must.
Let’s shift to want. Want to gets done, should rarely get done, must sometimes get done. Want always gets done.
I haven’t thought about that. Let’s explore that. I always felt like a must, I must do it is more like a ritual, like something that you will do because it’s part of who you are. It’s a must.
I hear what you’re saying is that want is something that you’re much stronger about. It’s definitely better than a should.
Tony Robbins is 100% right. As soon as you say should, you know you’re not going to do it. Must have a sense of external compulsion about it. “If I want that, I must do this even though I don’t want to do this.” Let’s take a completely different example. I did an Ironman Triathlon that’s where you swim 3.8k, you then cycle for 180k, and then you run a full marathon 42k. It’s a big day at the office. It’s a lot of training and it’s hard work. To do the Ironman well, I had to do the training. I must do the training. I did that, take that off the bucket list and thought, “The next big goal, I want to do the inputs as much as I want the outcome.” I thought back, “What do I love doing?”
I thought back to when I was sixteen when I was a student, I had a little motorbike. I thought I love riding motorbikes. I haven’t had one for 35 years. I set a goal to race in the Australian Superbike Championships. These are monsters, these bikes come pretty fast, like 300 kilometers an hour. The thing was, every time I sat on little tiny bikes and worked out, that every time I thought about the training, I wanted to go to the race track because it was an amazing adrenaline blast. If we can align our want-tos with our goals, then they get achieved faster and easier in. By the way, it’s a hell of a lot more fun. Efficiency and effectiveness come from want to. That’s my take on it.
When it’s fun and it’s something you want to do, you’ve taken away the resistance and you’re going to move in that direction. When that is aligned with your goals, I can totally see that.
That’s what truly effective marketing does is it aligns with the means by which you are generating the leads with the goal that you want and you want the goal and you want the means. If you’re going to do any sort of marketing, it has got to be the marketing that you want to do the most. Otherwise, you either won’t do it or it will be inconsistent. Look at blogs. How many people started a blog? We do three blogs and the last one was July 2009.
Because a lot of people don’t like to write.
It’s something I should do, “You should do a blog and make a fortune out of blogging, become a blogger, you can retire to the beach.” You do three blogs and I go, “That’s not something I want to do.”
Look at all the money that people have wasted. I noticed also in your book you said one of the myths is you’re going to generate leads and make a lot of money over the internet and with Facebook ads and different types of marketing campaigns and everything. People are spending and wasting so much time and money because they feel like they should do that, so they’re doing it. The shoulds are costing us a lot of money.
Facebook ads, we were doing them back in 2009 where we’re getting leads for a dollar, now $12 apiece. Everyone’s on the Facebook bandwagon. I’ll tell you, most of the people that are making most of the money out of Facebook advertising are people that are selling the advertising courses, not the people doing the advertising. It’s like the gold rush. Most people made the money with selling Levi Strauss’ jeans, not finding gold.
Let’s talk about some of those strategies of how we find what we want and also what are the best ways to go about them so that we do get the leads that we want and we do reach the goals that we’re looking for.
Almost all my clients are marketing the invisible. They have advice, they have a service, they might be management consultants, corporate trainers, business coaches, executive coaches, time management experts, online courses. They had this thing that’s not physical that they want people to buy. My next book, Marketing the Invisible is coming up. My model is very prescriptive. No one can buy anything by going to a website and clicking a button. We don’t do that. Everyone comes through the console. Everyone comes through a one-on-one meeting where you can validate if what you have is the right thing for them or not.
It is not a sales ambush and it is not a free idea session. You don’t pitch it as that. You pitch it as you offer it as two mature adults having an open conversation about whether their need is something you can help with. Because you have plenty of leads coming in, you can honestly say to people, “This is not for you. It’s something better over there. Go get it,” or you can say, “Yes, this is for you and this is why.” You can sleep well at night knowing you’re not trying to ram square pegs in a round hole.
There are a lot of people doing that. Let’s take the coach-consultant who offers the free twenty-minute session to check out or 30 minutes or whatever they do. I don’t offer that and they don’t offer that because I can fill up my schedule every 30 minutes. There are a lot of people who just want free stuff from you.
You’ve got to have filters in place.
That’s what I’m leading to for you to bring us into that direction. There are a lot of people who don’t qualify. They just put it up on the website and they allow anyone. That is a very poor use of your time. You might as well go to a networking event and talk to people at the networking event than spend all that time.
Many years ago, I gave a talk and there were 100 people there and I’ve got 23 consults. After 23 hours, I signed up absolutely no one because they were all broke and they all just want some free ideas. That’s the day I changed it. I said, “We aren’t doing this anymore.” If the corporate market is a little different you can offer, but every man and his dog has on their website, “Free call.” It’s no longer a big deal. Everyone else is doing it so don’t do that anymore. It’s also disingenuous because I know and you know and pretty much everyone else knows, it’s just trying to get you on the phone so we can twist your arm to buy something. If the very starting point of an inquiry, we’re misleading people. What does it say about the rest of the things we do? I’m not Mother Teresa or I’ve done this, I’ve tried it, if it did work, maybe I would have kept doing it, but it didn’t work. It never quite felt right because it was this trying to dress something up as it’s not. What I do is this, if you’re serving the consumer market or the SME market, you set up a landing page. If people want an example of this, they can go to BookAChatWithTom.com.
You set up a page like this. I said to all of my clients, “Go and get BookAChatWithPenny.com.” Traffic goes to that page and they read the deal and they read, “This is not a sales trap. It is also not a free coaching session. This is a conversation between two adults to see if what I’ve got here something that’s going to fit your needs.” That’s it. If you want to agree to the terms and conditions, you’ll see the three checkboxes. You have to tick there before you can access my online schedule and book a time. In my case, three checkboxes say, “Yes, I can at least afford a monthly fee should we decide that it’s a good idea to work together so I’m not going to be disappointed and frustrated because I want to work with Tom, but I can’t.” There are these three agreements and then they checked the boxes, then they can access the online scheduling system.
That’s one of several filters. Let’s say you want to drink some pure water and all you’ve got is stormwater and there’s mud on it, there was muck in it. You don’t know what’s in it. To get to drink the pure water, you need two things. You need filters and you need volume. If all you have is the filters and that landing page is like a filter, check the box and see if you agree, that’s a filter. Some people don’t check it, some people do. You want people, by the way, to not check it and disappear. That’s one of the filters. If all you have are filters not the volume, you just get a drop every now and then out the bottom. You get one person in a 100 booking a time with you. You’ve got to have the volume, which you can talk about how you do that in time efficient manner, but you got to have the filters as well. You’ve got the two things together, the filters and the volume and you get plenty of good pure consults coming through, a good fit.Marketing is not a transaction; it’s a relationship. Click To Tweet
It’s an absolutely critical thing that people don’t focus on. I want to make sure that everybody’s thinking about that. You also said that there can be multiple filters. It’s like any funnel can have a filter at each stage where they get to you so that they’re qualified. Then you can look at high conversion rates because people are there to identify, “Is this right for me?” They’ve already disqualified themselves if they’re not.
My conversion rate is close to 70% as I said. Roughly one in three I say, “This is not a good idea for you.” One in three goes into a lower priced program. One in three goes to the high price program. When you think about it, if you don’t do the consult because people have this holy grail thing, I wouldn’t be great if people find me like an automated webinar and then go ahead and buy something it. Wouldn’t that be cool? You need massive volume to make that work and if you’ve got a high-ticket price item like you’re charging maybe $5,000 or more, then the consults worth investment of your time because if you don’t do the consult, you can leave a lot of money on the table.
Here’s what I discovered, some people if I offer them a $5,000 program, they won’t buy it because it’s not expensive enough. They’ll buy a $15,000 or $25,000 program. Some people can’t afford the $15,000 or $25,000 but they could maybe do $300 a month. By having the consult, we get to direct people to the one that best fits their budget and their needs. Everyone comes through the consult. How do they find the consult? The perfect marketing medium that exists on planet Earth is the online meeting. It is the absolute sweet spot between having people have enough skin in the game, but not too much. All of my clients have online meetings running every week, typically one, maybe two online meetings every week.
What’s an online meeting? Do you mean a group meeting where a lot of people come in like a webinar where they have the knowledge and then people will decide if they want to have a consult or not?
Correct, but there are two styles of meetings depending on where you are targeting. I meant to add before you need fewer filters. We’re talking about filters before, you need less filters if you’re targeting into VPs or presidents of companies. You need these filters because they pick a couple of ideas and they talk seriously. Asking him to pay for the consult its company money being met up. We’ve got people booking a time, what do they find the link to book a time with you? They come to an online meeting and during the online meeting, which could be a webinar, lots of people there.
What works incredibly well and no one is doing it so it’s still fresh to people is you have a little small video conference with four to six people webcams on. You lead them through the exact same presentation as you would with a webinar, but we don’t call them training webinars. They’re demonstrations because when you think about the psychology of this, I’m going to go to a training session. It’s hard work. It could be valuable but it’s hard work. If I’m going to go to a demo, I get to sit back and watch someone else demo the thing. I learned this from my early days developing software. People love demos, don’t like training quite so much.
That makes sense because it’s not fun. It goes back to your thing of what they want.
It’s what they want, and we make it a 35-minute demo, not an hour because an hour is a lot of time. A part of something is almost nothing, so 35 minutes, I can do that. It’s an online meeting. They don’t have to drive anywhere. You don’t have to drive anywhere. There are no parking and traffic hassles. There’s no having to serve up orange juice and tea and coffee and smiling and pretending to like shaking hands with a hundred people. You don’t have to do that. My commute is from the kitchen where my espresso machine is down the hallway here to my conference room that we’re in.
The online meeting is perfect. I’m on one every single week, four to six people, webcams on and it keeps me close to the coal face because I’m talking to people who ask me questions. That keeps me sharp. I run once a month a big webinar that are hundreds of people. Both of them funnel people to the consult. We read the deal, have a consult. Two out of three become clients and so on. Where do you get the audiences from? There’s a fair bit to the online presentation because we have to take people from probably being open-minded to skeptical to have them being highly desirous of having a conversation with you if they’re the right people. That’s another filter. Where did the audience come from? The audience comes from two places almost invariably from LinkedIn, which works almost completely opposite to what everyone is teaching. When we talk about that, if you want, if you have a time-efficient approach to LinkedIn.
Tell us how to get those audiences.
It’s absolutely nothing to do with nurturing context. That’s the first rule of LinkedIn, it has nothing to do with nurturing. LinkedIn people, one or two things you should do is either connect and then say, “I noticed you have a website, would you like an appraisal because we do SEO services and we’re good.” You go, delete or they go to the other extreme. The picture is, “Let’s meet, let’s talk.” It’s what I call Hugh Jackman Marketing. Hugh Jackman’s being voted the world’s most irresistible man full out seven years by some women’s magazine. He can knock on my front door, my wife could open, I’d never see her again. He’s that good. He’s irresistible by definition probably.Marketing should be about confirmation. Click To Tweet
Most people are not. That’s the point that you’re getting at.
It’s the point I’m making is we’re not Hugh Jackman. When you’re marketing the invisible, it’s far more like you’re proposing marriage than it is selling a washing machine. It’s not a transaction, it’s a relationship. The way LinkedIn works is opposite to the way email subscribers work. Email subscribers subscribe because they are primarily interested in your service. Once they validated the efficacy of your service, whether it can help them or not, then they get interested in you and your integrity and your professionalism.
LinkedIn, take out the recruiters and the career people, everyone else who wants to connect with LinkedIn is not connecting with you because they want to buy something. They’re connecting because they think that might be able to sell you something. With LinkedIn, they’re firstly and interested in you, not your service. Email subscribers are the other way around. When you nurture email subscribers or auto-responders, that works. When you send nineteen out-of-value of messages, so when you contact on LinkedIn over a 90-day period and then propose that they meet with you, it doesn’t work.
What works with LinkedIn is the quality of volume. 33% of the people that you request a connection request on LinkedIn will connect. They are the same 33% that LinkedIn tell us are active at least once a month on LinkedIn. Pretty much everyone can accept the connection request, it’s easy. The way LinkedIn works is that you get the acceptance and invite them to your online meeting, immediately.
Then they can decide. That’s your first filter is deciding whether or not that’s interesting enough for them to do that.
It’s the third filter, it’s still a filter. We said 33% will accept the connection request. Remember, we’re only wanting to connect with people who would be potentially our ideal client. 2.5% of the people who will accept a connection request will then register for your online meeting. 40% of the people that registered for the online meeting will attend.
That means you need volume. We’re back to volume.
Which is where you exit and the contractors come in. What contractors do I hear you ask? Let me introduce you to Mohammed. Mohammed is in Bangladesh. He’s a 23-year-old who happens to have an internet connection. He works with me for five hours a week and he gets paid $5 an hour. This is in a country where the average monthly income for full-time work is $96. Mohammed is getting $100 US a month for five hours a week where most people are getting less than that for a full weeks’ work. Not only that, I give him a bonus. You find someone that fits the profile of an ideal client on LinkedIn. He invites them to my online meeting and when they accept that and they attend, he gets a bonus.
The last two months, his bonus is at $750. Get this, he’s earning $850 a month doing my LinkedIn work with his account on my account. The other users that he gets suspended, he’s out of business, so he’s careful. I get a return on the investment, the $850 I paid him, $100 a month for the $5 an hour, five hours a week for a month plus the bonus, I get a return on investment that between $20,000 and $35,000 times depending on the month.” I wake up in the morning and I go, “LinkedIn should do.”
A lot of people feel the same way. They don’t want to control LinkedIn and that’s why they hire somebody to do something, maybe they hire somebody to nurture them.
I look at automated platforms or they hire the wrong people or they give those people the wrong message. Mohammed’s English is perfect because all he does is copy and paste messages that I told him to copy and paste. The bonus is what drives, not the $5 a week. The $5 gives him some security and it’s a message of good faith that I’m going to pay him regardless of whether my system works or not. It works because I’ve been there quite a while. He wakes up in the morning and he goes, “LinkedIn, $850.” He puts both his parent’s incomes together who are working full-time. He’s still doing four times that in five hours a week.
We’ve got Mohammed doing what he wants to do and we’ve got Tom doing what he wants to do and Tom wants to show up to meetings and talk to people about his stuff. Mohammed’s getting the audiences there. That’s one lead stream that works absolutely relentlessly because he wants to. He would like to do twenty hours a week for me, but I want him getting the bonuses. You’ve mentioned before you need volume and that’s why you have a contract. I have four contractors on LinkedIn. The filters are the system, the system of getting the right contractor, the system of getting the right message, the system of getting it into the right person, the system of the online registration link. Quality is controlled by the system. The volume comes from the contractors.
Because they’re doing what they want to do and you’re doing what you want to do.
I select them and I give them the right system and they could carry the volume.
For our audience, I know that you’re sharing with them your tips and strategies and things that you work with other coaches, consultants and so forth. Is that a service that you provide?
No, we don’t. One of the problems I have with offering it as a service is I preach very excitedly and even evangelically, they should never outsource your marketing. I say to people, “How would you feel if I came along and said, ‘Penny, I have a great oxygen supply here. Just pay me some money and from now on, that’s all the oxygen you’ll ever need.’” Outsourcing your oxygen supply to a commercial third party would not be a good idea because you’re going to die if you don’t get that oxygen.Along our want to with our goals, efficiency and effectiveness come from want to. Click To Tweet
What I meant was you’re outsourcing one piece of the system, you still have to be in charge. You still have to do that.
I have a new client who comes on board, I show them how to get their own contractors.
You show them your system and how to implement your system and they can do it and it’ll work for them because they’re going to do it the way that works best for them.
They have their own in-house lead generation system. They’re not dependent on me. Once I got the system in place, they’re up and running. I had an inquiry from a globally-renowned internet marketer who wants to contract me. We’ve had several conversations. He approached me and said, “I heard about your system. How would you feel if you did that for us?” With him, I’m okay because he’s doing $3 million a year and I would only be generating perhaps maybe 10% of that for him. He doesn’t have the vulnerability.
It’s not the entire marketing that he’s outsourcing, he’s outsourcing one piece, which is important for people to understand that that’s just one method to generate leads. There are many others and one of the things that you say in your book that is important is that people get caught up in the tactics and they don’t do what they need to do strategically first, which is to understand they need to set a plan for themselves as to which marketing channels are going to be the best for them and so forth. Get clear on who their target market is and what their differentiation is.
Strategically, the most important thing is to answer, what does my ideal client need to read or hear in order to want to know more? That’s one of the strategic elements as your marketing message, your USP or elevator pitch, but people pay lip service to that.
People don’t have it. They think they have it, but I find that a lot of people don’t.
It’s a tough one to figure out. It should be a benefit-rich statement. It should contain specifics and that’s what most people miss. The third thing is it should sound different to whatever your competitors are saying. It’s like classic business coaches, “We’ll grow your business and give you more free time.”` Almost every business coach’s website you visit, it’s something along those lines. If you want to get cut through, you go to use completely different words. If you want to motivate people to want to know more than specifics, then increase both believability and desirability.
For example, a client of mine developed a software for QSR. QSR is a quick service restaurant, McDonald’s, Burger King, Wendy’s and so on. Before we worked on his marketing message, I said, “Max, what do you do for a living?” Let’s say it was a McDonald’s outlet, a franchise. “Funny you should ask. I developed a point of sale software for QSRs.” At which point, the person who asked the questions, their eyes would glaze over and go, “The last thing I need is more software. I’ve already got the software.” It’s not benefit-rich, it describes his product. It doesn’t contain specifics. We changed it. We said, “We increased the sales and QSRs by 25% within 90 days, guaranteed.” That gets cut through. It motivates people to want to know more. Online presentation, attention, QSR zones, how to increase the sales in your restaurant by 25% with 90 days. “Would you be interested in knowing about that?” “Hell yes. 35 minutes, little skin in the game, come to an online meeting, webcams are on, I’m cool with that. Reach out to Max afterward.”
The marketing list has got to be worked out and that’s part of the strategy you got to do before the tactics. When you get to the tactics, you got to figure out which medium am I going to get that message about my magic out to the market. Unfortunately, which older tradition, we recommend the methods either don’t work or too expensive or too complicated or inefficient relative to the online meeting. The only meeting is the way to go. I’ve got clients in London, Germany, Madrid, New York around the world. I could never do that in the old days without online meetings because everyone had to drive or fly to a meeting. We talk about efficiency and effectiveness so the offline meetings were effective, but it’s not very efficient. You have a conference, you get 100 bodies in the room and strut your stuff and hand out feedback forms and people register. That works well, but it’s very expensive and complicated and therefore not particularly efficient.
That’s what we’re talking about. There have been great nuggets of wisdom. I knew that during our last interview together, I loved your energy and I can see yet another layer of expertise and brilliance that’s behind there. I appreciate you being here and sharing with this audience how they can take back their time and be more efficient and effective in their lead generation. I know that you’ve got a lot more that’s scratching the surface. How do people get a hold of you and reach you and have that discussion with you?
BookAChatWithTom.com, they can go there and back and they can read the deal and if they agree to the deal, it’s a good deal, then we’ll have a conversation. The other thing that people get a lot of value out of is FiveHourChallenge.com. It’s a lead generation challenge that is designed to take five hours over five days and generate five fresh leads. If someone’s like, “I’d love to work with you, Tom, but I’m broke.” Go there, get some leads, come in and get some money and then come back and talk. If you’ve got a budget then sure.
You’re showing by example the different ways to engage people. Even if people don’t have the money to work with you, there is a way that they can get some experience of you. They’re not gone forever.
They’re on my list. They get nurtured and hopefully, they get some new clients on board with that system and then they become a client later on. Also, it’s nice to be able to help people who can’t quite afford me because I used to be like that. I used to have $80,000 debt and absolutely no money.
This episode with Tom Poland is going to help you in your sales efforts to generate more leads and to do it in a smarter way. We’ve got a lot of great tips here and that’s a way that you’re going to be able to Take Back Time.
- Tom Poland
- Leadsology: The Science of Being in Demand
About Tom Poland
Tom is a Marketing Mentor who started his first business at age 24 and has gone on to start and sell four others, taking two of them international. In that time he’s managed teams of over 100 people and annual revenue of more than 20 million.
These days Tom’s thing is “Leadsology: The Science of Being in Demand” which is a blended learning program that gives professional advisors a model for generating a flow of high-quality, inbound, new client enquiries into their businesses almost every week of the year.
Over 2000 business owners across 193 different industries and 4 continents have been through his programs and many have gone on to add millions to their earnings and their testimonials are available on his website
Tom’s work has been published in 27 countries and he’s also shared international speaking platforms with the likes of Michael Gerber of E-Myth fame, Richard Koch from the 80-20 Principle, Brian Tracy and many others.